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Psalm 110 Priest King

2026-01-19T02:34:35Z

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= Psalm 110: Priest-King theme (v1 and v4) =

{{MessiahSources}}

== Why Psalm 110 matters ==
Psalm 110 is frequently used in Christian argument because it combines:
* exalted royal language (“sit at my right hand”)
* and priestly language (“priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek” in v4)

== Psalm 110:1 (what it means, summary) ==
The verse portrays YHWH granting an honored position to “my lord,” with the promise of victory over enemies (footstool imagery). It is royal/exaltation language.

== Hebrew note (important in debate) ==
The phrase “my lord” in Psalm 110:1 uses a Hebrew form often used for a human superior. That does not settle the debate, but it warns against simplistic claims that the grammar alone proves deity.

== Common Jewish framing (summary) ==
Many Jewish readings treat Psalm 110 as a royal psalm connected to Davidic kingship (or court language), without concluding the figure is divine.

== Common Christian framing (summary) ==
Christians often read Psalm 110 messianically and connect it to:
* Jesus’ exaltation language in the New Testament
* priesthood themes developed especially in Hebrews

== Primary texts ==
<ref>[https://www.sefaria.org/Psalms.110.1?lang=en Psalm 110:1], ''Sefaria'' (accessed 2026-01-18)</ref>
<ref>[https://www.sefaria.org/Psalms.110.4?lang=en Psalm 110:4], ''Sefaria'' (accessed 2026-01-18)</ref>
<ref>[https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Hebrews+7&version=NIV Hebrews 7], ''BibleGateway'' (accessed 2026-01-18)</ref>

<references />

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[[Category:Messiah]]
[[Category:Psalms]]
[[Category:Christianity and Judaism]]

Daniel 9 Seventy Weeks Overview

2026-01-19T02:34:35Z

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= Daniel 9: Seventy Weeks (overview) =

{{MessiahSources}}

== What Daniel 9 contains (summary) ==
Daniel 9 presents a prayer and a prophetic response describing “seventy weeks” (often understood as “seventy sevens”), with events involving an “anointed one,” Jerusalem, and destruction/war.

== Why it’s debated ==
Christians often treat it as a chronological pointer to the Messiah and connect it to Jesus’ era.
Jewish interpreters often read it differently (non-messianically or with alternative historical anchors).

== Typical Christian outline (high-level) ==
* Start date tied to a decree to restore/build Jerusalem
* The “anointed one” is associated with Messiah
* The timing is aligned to the first century (disputed)

== Typical Jewish outline (high-level) ==
* Different identification of the “anointed one” (e.g., priest/king in historical context)
* Different chronology/start points
* Emphasis on Second Temple-era events without Jesus as referent

== Primary text ==
<ref>[https://www.sefaria.org/Daniel.9?lang=en Daniel 9], ''Sefaria'' (accessed 2026-01-18)</ref>

== Next page ==
* [[Daniel_9_Jewish_vs_Christian_Readings]]

<references />

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Isaiah 53 The Suffering Servant

2026-01-19T02:34:34Z

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= Isaiah 53: The Suffering Servant =

{{MessiahSources}}

== Primary text ==
<ref>[https://www.sefaria.org/Isaiah.53?lang=en Isaiah 53], ''Sefaria'' (accessed 2026-01-18)</ref>

== Common Jewish interpretation (anchor) ==
<ref>[https://www.sefaria.org/Rashi_on_Isaiah.53.3?lang=en Rashi on Isaiah 53:3], ''Sefaria'' (accessed 2026-01-18)</ref>

== Jewish polemical critique (example) ==
<ref>[https://jewsforjudaism.org/knowledge/articles/debunking-the-isaiah-53-forbidden-chapter-conspiracy Debunking the Isaiah 53 “Forbidden Chapter” claim], ''Jews for Judaism'' (accessed 2026-01-18)</ref>

== Christian/Messianic apologetics (optional) ==
<ref>[https://jewsforjesus.org/learn/is-isaiah-53-a-description-of-jesus-as-suffering-servant Is Isaiah 53 a description of Jesus?], ''Jews for Jesus'' (accessed 2026-01-18)</ref>
<ref>[https://jewsforjesus.org/messianic-prophecies/isaiah-53-a-definitive-guide-to-messianic-meaning-in-4-parts Isaiah 53 guide (4 parts)], ''Jews for Jesus'' (accessed 2026-01-18)</ref>

== New Testament usage (example) ==
<ref>[https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Peter+2%3A24-25&version=NIV 1 Peter 2:24–25], ''BibleGateway'' (accessed 2026-01-18)</ref>

<references />

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[[Category:Messiah]]
[[Category:Prophecy]]
[[Category:Christianity and Judaism]]

Messiah Common Jewish Objections

2026-01-19T02:34:34Z

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{{DISPLAYTITLE:Is Jesus the Jewish Messiah? – Objections (with sources)}}
{{MessiahNav|up=Is_Jesus_the_Jewish_Messiah|prev=Messiah_Prophecies_Overview|next=Sin_Is_The_Problem|start=Messiah_Reading_Guide}}

= Common Jewish objections (with sources) =

{{MessiahSources}}

This page lists common Jewish objections to Christian claims about Jesus as Messiah, alongside common Christian replies. It documents disagreements and the sources each side appeals to.

== Objections table ==
{| class="wikitable sortable" style="width:100%;"
! #
! Objection (summary)
! Typical Jewish framing (with sources)
! Typical Christian reply (with sources)
|-
| 1
| Messiah must accomplish the messianic age (peace, ingathering, Temple, universal knowledge of God)
| Many Jewish presentations define Messiah by public outcomes (Temple rebuilding, ingathering, peace, worldwide knowledge of God). Since this did not occur in Jesus’ lifetime, Jesus is not Messiah on that framing.
<ref>[https://jewsforjudaism.ca/jesus-not-jewish-messiah/ Why Jesus Is Not The Jewish Messiah], ''Jews for Judaism (Canada)'' (accessed 2026-01-18)</ref>
<ref>[https://www.sefaria.org/Mishneh_Torah%2C_Kings_and_Wars.11.1?lang=en Mishneh Torah, Kings and Wars 11:1], ''Sefaria'' (accessed 2026-01-18)</ref>
| Christians often answer with an “already/not-yet” framework: first coming (atonement), second coming (kingdom completion).
<ref>[https://www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/Acts%201%3A11 Acts 1:11], ''BibleGateway'' (accessed 2026-01-18)</ref>
<ref>[https://www.vatican.va/content/catechism/en/part_one/section_two/chapter_two/article_7.html Catechism of the Catholic Church – Article 7], ''Vatican.va'' (accessed 2026-01-18)</ref>
|-
| 2
| “Second coming” is not a Jewish concept of Messiah
| Jewish critiques often reject the idea that a messianic claimant can “come back later to finish,” treating it as a Christian innovation.
<ref>[https://jewsforjudaism.org/knowledge/articles/ Jews for Judaism – articles index], ''Jews for Judaism'' (accessed 2026-01-18)</ref>
| Christians treat the return of Christ as central and explicit in New Testament teaching and historic creeds.
<ref>[https://www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/Acts%201%3A11 Acts 1:11], ''BibleGateway'' (accessed 2026-01-18)</ref>
<ref>[https://www.vatican.va/content/catechism/en/part_one/section_two/chapter_two/article_7.html CCC Article 7], ''Vatican.va'' (accessed 2026-01-18)</ref>
|-
| 3
| Isaiah 53 “Suffering Servant” is Israel (or another figure), not the Messiah / not Jesus
| A common Jewish approach reads the servant corporately (Israel / righteous remnant). Rashi’s Isaiah commentary is frequently cited in modern debate.
<ref>[https://www.sefaria.org/Rashi_on_Isaiah.53.3?lang=en Rashi on Isaiah 53:3], ''Sefaria'' (accessed 2026-01-18)</ref>
| Christians often read Isaiah 53 as messianic and see echoes in New Testament descriptions of Jesus’ suffering.
<ref>[https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Peter+2%3A24-25&version=NIV 1 Peter 2:24–25], ''BibleGateway'' (accessed 2026-01-18)</ref>
|-
| 4
| Jeremiah 31 “New Covenant” is with Israel/Judah and Torah remains
| Jewish readings emphasize the text explicitly names Israel and Judah and describes Torah written on the heart (internalized fidelity), not replacement.
<ref>[https://aish.com/jeremiah-31-and-the-new-covenant/ Jeremiah 31 and the New Covenant], ''Aish'' (accessed 2026-01-18)</ref>
| Christians commonly cite Hebrews’ use of Jeremiah 31 to argue Jesus mediates the covenant’s fulfillment.
<ref>[https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Hebrews+8&version=NIV Hebrews 8], ''BibleGateway'' (accessed 2026-01-18)</ref>
|-
| 5
| God’s unity/incorporeality: Messiah is not God; incarnation conflicts with Jewish monotheism
| Jewish sources emphasize God’s oneness and incorporeality; worship of a human is rejected.
<ref>[https://www.sefaria.org/Deuteronomy.6.4?lang=en Deuteronomy 6:4], ''Sefaria'' (accessed 2026-01-18)</ref>
<ref>[https://www.sefaria.org/Numbers.23.19?lang=en Numbers 23:19], ''Sefaria'' (accessed 2026-01-18)</ref>
<ref>[https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/the-thirteen-principles-of-faith/ The Thirteen Principles of Faith], ''My Jewish Learning'' (accessed 2026-01-18)</ref>
| Christians argue the New Testament teaches Jesus’ divinity and incarnation as compatible with monotheism (Trinitarian framework).
<ref>[https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+1%3A1&version=NIV John 1:1], ''BibleGateway'' (accessed 2026-01-18)</ref>
<ref>[https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Philippians+2%3A6-11&version=NIV Philippians 2:6–11], ''BibleGateway'' (accessed 2026-01-18)</ref>
|-
| 6
| Context and “proof-texting”: Christian readings detach verses from peshat
| Jewish critiques argue New Testament-style fulfillment readings often ignore context and peshat.
<ref>[https://jewsforjudaism.org/knowledge/articles/christian-proof-texting/ Christian Proof-Texting], ''Jews for Judaism'' (accessed 2026-01-18)</ref>
<ref>[https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/jewish-bible-commentary/ Jewish Bible Commentary (approaches)], ''My Jewish Learning'' (accessed 2026-01-18)</ref>
| Christians reply that Scripture can have more than one “sense,” including typology, and that apostolic interpretation reads earlier texts in light of later revelation.
<ref>[https://www.vatican.va/content/catechism/en/part_one/section_one/chapter_two/article_3/iii_the_holy_spirit%2C_interpreter_of_scripture.html CCC 115–119], ''Vatican.va'' (accessed 2026-01-18)</ref>
|-
| 7
| Original sin / inherited guilt is not a Jewish doctrine
| Many Jewish explanations reject inherited guilt and emphasize individual responsibility.
<ref>[https://www.sefaria.org/Ezekiel.18.20?lang=en Ezekiel 18:20], ''Sefaria'' (accessed 2026-01-18)</ref>
<ref>[https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/the-jewish-view-of-sin/ The Jewish View of Sin], ''My Jewish Learning'' (accessed 2026-01-18)</ref>
| Christianity often grounds original sin in Romans 5 and summarizes it in catechesis.
<ref>[https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans+5%3A12-19&version=NIV Romans 5:12–19], ''BibleGateway'' (accessed 2026-01-18)</ref>
|-
| 8
| Torah tests: Deuteronomy 13 and the danger of a “sign-working” deceiver
| Some Jewish objections appeal to Deuteronomy 13: even if signs occur, if someone leads Israel away from Torah/true worship, he is rejected.
<ref>[https://www.sefaria.org/Deuteronomy.13?lang=en Deuteronomy 13], ''Sefaria'' (accessed 2026-01-18)</ref>
| Christians reply by disputing the premise (that Jesus leads away from Torah/God), and by arguing Jesus fulfills Torah rather than annuls it.
<ref>[https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+5%3A17-20&version=NIV Matthew 5:17–20], ''BibleGateway'' (accessed 2026-01-18)</ref>
|}

== Notes ==
<references />

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[[Category:Messiah]]
[[Category:Jesus]]
[[Category:Christianity and Judaism]]

Messiah Sources

2026-01-19T02:34:33Z

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{{MessiahNav|up=Is_Jesus_the_Jewish_Messiah|prev=Messiah_Reading_Guide|next=Messiah_Prophecies_Overview|start=Messiah_Reading_Guide}}

= Messiah Sources =

This page lists recommended sources to represent Jewish and Christian views fairly, plus a few neutral academic references.

== How to cite on this wiki ==
Use MediaWiki <ref>...</ref> citations and a <references /> section.

Example:
<pre>
Jesus is presented as Davidic in the New Testament.<ref>[https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans+1%3A3-4&version=NIV Romans 1:3–4], ''BibleGateway'' (accessed 2026-01-18)</ref>

== Notes ==
<references />
</pre>

Recommended format:
<pre>
<ref>[URL Title], ''Site'' (accessed YYYY-MM-DD)</ref>
</pre>

== Jewish sources (mainstream explainers) ==
* Jews for Judaism: <ref>[https://jewsforjudaism.org/ Jews for Judaism], ''Jews for Judaism'' (accessed 2026-01-18)</ref>
* My Jewish Learning: <ref>[https://www.myjewishlearning.com/ My Jewish Learning], ''My Jewish Learning'' (accessed 2026-01-18)</ref>
* Aish: <ref>[https://aish.com/ Aish], ''Aish'' (accessed 2026-01-18)</ref>
* Chabad.org: <ref>[https://www.chabad.org/ Chabad.org], ''Chabad.org'' (accessed 2026-01-18)</ref>

== Jewish primary texts ==
* Sefaria: <ref>[https://www.sefaria.org/ Sefaria], ''Sefaria'' (accessed 2026-01-18)</ref>

== Christian primary texts & summaries ==
* BibleGateway: <ref>[https://www.biblegateway.com/ BibleGateway], ''BibleGateway'' (accessed 2026-01-18)</ref>
* Catechism (Catholic): <ref>[https://www.vatican.va/content/catechism/en.html Catechism of the Catholic Church], ''Vatican.va'' (accessed 2026-01-18)</ref>

== Neutral / academic references ==
* Encyclopaedia Britannica: <ref>[https://www.britannica.com/ Encyclopaedia Britannica], ''Britannica'' (accessed 2026-01-18)</ref>
* Jewish Encyclopedia (older; verify with newer scholarship): <ref>[https://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/ Jewish Encyclopedia], ''Jewish Encyclopedia'' (accessed 2026-01-18)</ref>

== Quote hygiene ==
If you use famous quotes (Lewis, Adams, etc.):
* Prefer sources that provide attribution/context.
* Avoid quote images as primary sources.
* If unsure, mark as “attributed” or omit.

<references />

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[[Category:Messiah]]
[[Category:Sources]]

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2026-01-19T02:34:33Z

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<includeonly>
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|-
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| [[Messiah_Reading_Guide]] • [[Messiah_Prophecies_Overview]] • [[Messiah_Common_Jewish_Objections]] • [[Sin_Is_The_Problem]]
|-
| Key disputed texts
| [[Isaiah_53_The_Suffering_Servant]] • [[Daniel_7_Son_of_Man_and_Kingdom]] • [[New_Covenant_Jeremiah_31]] • [[Messiah_Expectations_Peace_Temple_Gathering]]
|-
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| [[Rambam_Messiah_Criteria]] • [[Deuteronomy_13_and_Jesus]] • [[Daniel_9_Seventy_Weeks_Overview]] • [[Psalm_110_Priest_King]]
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'''Sources note:''' This page aims to represent both Jewish and Christian views fairly. Where a claim describes a Jewish position, it should be supported by Jewish sources (Tanakh, rabbinic texts, or mainstream Jewish explanations). Where a claim describes a Christian position, it should be supported by Christian sources (New Testament, early church, or scholarly references).
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Psalm 110 Priest King

2026-01-19T02:23:44Z

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Isaiah 7 14 Almah and Septuagint

2026-01-19T02:23:43Z

Paul: 1 revision imported: from chatGPT

{{MessiahNav|up=Is_Jesus_the_Jewish_Messiah|prev=Daniel_9_Jewish_vs_Christian_Readings|next=Psalm_110_Priest_King|start=Messiah_Reading_Guide}}

= Isaiah 7:14 (“almah”) and the Septuagint =

{{MessiahSources}}

== The debate in one sentence ==
Isaiah 7:14 is disputed because Christians often read it as a virgin-birth prophecy (in part via the Greek Septuagint and Matthew), while Jewish interpreters generally read it in Isaiah’s immediate historical context (Ahaz) and contest the translation/meaning.

== Key Hebrew term: “almah” ==
* “Almah” refers to a young woman of marriageable age; it does not explicitly mean “virgin” in every context (though it also does not exclude virginity).
* The Hebrew word that more directly means “virgin” is often identified as “betulah” (context still matters).

== Septuagint factor ==
The Greek Septuagint renders the term with a Greek word often translated “virgin,” which becomes part of the Christian argument because Matthew cites it.

== Common Jewish framing (summary) ==
* Isaiah 7 is addressing a specific historical crisis.
* The “sign” functions within that immediate context.
* Therefore, applying it directly to Jesus is a misreading/overreach.

== Common Christian framing (summary) ==
* Isaiah has an immediate context and a deeper typological fulfillment.
* Matthew’s use is treated as authoritative for Christians.
* The Septuagint usage supports the Christian reading (debated).

== Primary texts ==
<ref>[https://www.sefaria.org/Isaiah.7.14?lang=en Isaiah 7:14], ''Sefaria'' (accessed 2026-01-18)</ref>
<ref>[https://www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/Matthew%201%3A23 Matthew 1:23], ''BibleGateway'' (accessed 2026-01-18)</ref>

<references />

{{MessiahNavbox}}

[[Category:Messiah]]
[[Category:Prophecy]]
[[Category:Christianity and Judaism]]

Daniel 9 Jewish vs Christian Readings

2026-01-19T02:23:43Z

Paul: 1 revision imported: from chatGPT

{{MessiahNav|up=Is_Jesus_the_Jewish_Messiah|prev=Daniel_9_Seventy_Weeks_Overview|next=Isaiah_7_14_Almah_and_Septuagint|start=Messiah_Reading_Guide}}

= Daniel 9: Jewish vs Christian readings (key dispute points) =

{{MessiahSources}}

== The main dispute points ==
=== 1) What does “weeks” mean? ===
Is it symbolic, or a literal “weeks of years” structure?

=== 2) Which decree is the start point? ===
Multiple Persian-era decrees are proposed in Christian chronologies; Jewish readings may anchor differently.

=== 3) Who is the “anointed one” (mashiach) in the passage? ===
Options argued:
* a priestly figure
* a king
* an eschatological Messiah (Christian claim)

=== 4) How do you map the events (destruction, war, covenant language)? ===
Both sides build a timeline, but the mapping differs.

== Suggested structure for this page (fill in with citations) ==
* Present 2 Jewish interpretations (cite: Sefaria commentaries / classic commentators).
* Present 2 Christian interpretations (cite: reputable Christian scholarship or confessional summaries).
* Then list 5 “make-or-break” assumptions each side relies on.

== Primary text ==
<ref>[https://www.sefaria.org/Daniel.9?lang=en Daniel 9], ''Sefaria'' (accessed 2026-01-18)</ref>

<references />

{{MessiahNavbox}}

[[Category:Messiah]]
[[Category:Prophecy]]
[[Category:Christianity and Judaism]]

Daniel 9 Seventy Weeks Overview

2026-01-19T02:23:42Z

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Zechariah 12 10 and Mourning

2026-01-19T02:23:42Z

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{{MessiahNav|up=Is_Jesus_the_Jewish_Messiah|prev=Messiah_ben_Yosef|next=Daniel_9_Seventy_Weeks_Overview|start=Messiah_Reading_Guide}}

= Zechariah 12:10 and mourning (“they will look… and mourn”) =

{{MessiahSources}}

== The text (summary) ==
Zechariah 12 describes a future deliverance for Jerusalem and speaks of a moment of intense mourning associated with “looking” toward a figure/point of reference described with difficult Hebrew wording.

== Why it’s a debate text ==
* Christians often connect it to suffering/piercing language and to New Testament usage.
* Jewish interpretations vary, and many do not read it as a prediction of Jesus.

== What to do on this page ==
# Present the Hebrew/translation options plainly.
# Provide at least one classic Jewish interpretation (e.g., rabbinic discussion or medieval commentator).
# Provide the Christian use (e.g., NT citation).
# Identify the real crux: translation + referent + context.

== Primary texts ==
<ref>[https://www.sefaria.org/Zechariah.12.10?lang=en Zechariah 12:10], ''Sefaria'' (accessed 2026-01-18)</ref>
<ref>[https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+19%3A37&version=NIV John 19:37], ''BibleGateway'' (accessed 2026-01-18)</ref>

<references />

{{MessiahNavbox}}

[[Category:Messiah]]
[[Category:Prophecy]]
[[Category:Christianity and Judaism]]

Messiah ben Yosef

2026-01-19T02:23:41Z

Paul: 1 revision imported: from chatGPT

{{MessiahNav|up=Is_Jesus_the_Jewish_Messiah|prev=Deuteronomy_13_and_Jesus|next=Zechariah_12_10_and_Mourning|start=Messiah_Reading_Guide}}

= Messiah ben Yosef (Messiah son of Joseph) =

{{MessiahNavbox}}
{{MessiahSources}}

== What it is (high-level) ==
In some later Jewish traditions, there is a concept of a “Messiah son of Joseph” (or “son of Ephraim”) associated with suffering and sometimes death in an end-times context, distinct from “Messiah son of David.”

== Why it matters in debate ==
Christians sometimes cite this as evidence that “suffering messiah” is not entirely foreign to Jewish tradition, even if Judaism does not identify Jesus as Messiah.

== Caution ==
This is not universal Jewish doctrine and should not be presented as “what Judaism teaches” in a simple way. Treat it as a strand of tradition and cite sources carefully.

== Sources to start with ==
* Sefaria topic hub (secondary aggregation; use to locate primary references):
<ref>[https://www.sefaria.org/topics/messiah-ben-joseph?lang=en Messiah ben Joseph (topic)], ''Sefaria'' (accessed 2026-01-18)</ref>

<references />

[[Category:Messiah]]
[[Category:Judaism]]
[[Category:Christianity and Judaism]]

Deuteronomy 13 and Jesus

2026-01-19T02:23:41Z

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{{MessiahNav|up=Is_Jesus_the_Jewish_Messiah|prev=Did_Jesus_Meet_Rambam_Criteria|next=Messiah_ben_Yosef|start=Messiah_Reading_Guide}}

= Deuteronomy 13 and Jesus (Torah test for prophets) =

{{MessiahSources}}

== The text (what it’s about) ==
Deuteronomy 13 warns that if a prophet or dreamer gives a sign or wonder but then leads Israel to follow other gods, Israel must reject him.

== Why this appears in debate ==
A common Jewish argument:
* Even if miracles are claimed, Torah provides a test.
* If Christian claims imply worship of a man, or abandonment of Torah, Deuteronomy 13 is invoked as disqualifying.

== Common Christian replies ==
Typical Christian answers include:
* Jesus calls Israel to worship the God of Israel, not “other gods”.
* Jesus is presented as fulfilling Torah, not abolishing it (debated).
* Disputes over what “other gods” means in relation to incarnation/Trinity claims.

== Key question to clarify ==
The debate often turns on two premises:
# Does Christianity entail worship of “another god”?
# Does Jesus’ teaching nullify Torah, or fulfill it?

== Primary text ==
<ref>[https://www.sefaria.org/Deuteronomy.13?lang=en Deuteronomy 13], ''Sefaria'' (accessed 2026-01-18)</ref>

== Common Christian proof-text in reply ==
<ref>[https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+5%3A17-20&version=NIV Matthew 5:17–20], ''BibleGateway'' (accessed 2026-01-18)</ref>

<references />

{{MessiahNavbox}}

[[Category:Messiah]]
[[Category:Torah]]
[[Category:Christianity and Judaism]]

Did Jesus Meet Rambam Criteria

2026-01-19T02:23:41Z

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{{MessiahNav|up=Is_Jesus_the_Jewish_Messiah|prev=Rambam_Messiah_Criteria|next=Deuteronomy_13_and_Jesus|start=Messiah_Reading_Guide}}

= Did Jesus meet Rambam’s Messiah criteria? =

{{MessiahSources}}

== The debate framing ==
Using Rambam’s checklist as the standard, critics argue Jesus did not qualify as Messiah because the visible outcomes Rambam lists did not occur in Jesus’ lifetime.

Christians often respond that:
* Rambam is a medieval codifier (not the only Jewish framework),
* and that prophetic promises may be “already/not-yet” (a two-stage claim),
* or that some criteria are interpreted differently (spiritual vs national, inaugurated vs consummated).

== Checklist table ==
{| class="wikitable" style="width:100%;"
! Rambam criterion (high-level)
! Common Jewish conclusion
! Common Christian reply (typical)
|-
| Establish Davidic kingship + Torah restoration
| Not established as king in Israel; outcomes not achieved
| Kingdom is inaugurated; Messiah’s reign understood differently
|-
| Rebuild the Temple
| Not done
| Future fulfillment / spiritual-temple arguments (disputed)
|-
| Gather the exiles of Israel
| Not done
| Future fulfillment claim (disputed)
|-
| Messianic age outcomes (peace/knowledge of God)
| Not present
| Already/not-yet
|}

== Key question ==
Is Messiah defined primarily by:
* '''visible historical outcomes''' (Rambam-style), or by
* '''identity + mission that unfolds''' (common Christian framing)?

== Sources ==
<ref>[https://www.sefaria.org/Mishneh_Torah%2C_Kings_and_Wars.11?lang=en Mishneh Torah, Kings and Wars 11], ''Sefaria'' (accessed 2026-01-18)</ref>
<ref>[https://www.sefaria.org/Mishneh_Torah%2C_Kings_and_Wars.12?lang=en Mishneh Torah, Kings and Wars 12], ''Sefaria'' (accessed 2026-01-18)</ref>

<references />

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Rambam Messiah Criteria

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= Rambam’s Messiah criteria (Maimonides) =

{{MessiahSources}}

== Why this matters ==
In modern Jewish-Christian debate, a common baseline for “who qualifies as Messiah?” is Rambam (Maimonides), ''Mishneh Torah'', ''Kings and Wars'' (Hilchot Melachim uMilchamot), especially chapters 11–12.

== What Rambam says (summary) ==
Rambam describes the Messiah as a Davidic king who:
* restores Davidic rule and Torah observance
* fights the wars of the Lord (in Rambam’s framing)
* rebuilds the Temple
* gathers the exiles of Israel
* ushers in an era characterized by knowledge of God and peace (expanded in ch. 12)

== The “presumption” test ==
Rambam distinguishes between:
* someone who may be “presumed Messiah,” and
* the confirmed Messiah, if he succeeds in rebuilding the Temple and gathering exiles.

== Primary sources ==
<ref>[https://www.sefaria.org/Mishneh_Torah%2C_Kings_and_Wars.11?lang=en Mishneh Torah, Kings and Wars 11], ''Sefaria'' (accessed 2026-01-18)</ref>
<ref>[https://www.sefaria.org/Mishneh_Torah%2C_Kings_and_Wars.12?lang=en Mishneh Torah, Kings and Wars 12], ''Sefaria'' (accessed 2026-01-18)</ref>
<ref>[https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/1188356/jewish/Melachim-uMilchamot-Chapter-11.htm Melachim uMilchamot – Chapter 11], ''Chabad.org'' (accessed 2026-01-18)</ref>

== See also ==
* [[Did_Jesus_Meet_Rambam_Criteria]]
* [[Messiah_Expectations_Peace_Temple_Gathering]]

<references />

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Democracy without God

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= Democracy without God =

'''Thesis:''' Democracy can restrain tyranny, but it cannot manufacture virtue. If a society loses shared moral foundations, democratic systems tend to degrade into coercion, propaganda, or factional rule.

== Why this page is here ==
This topic belongs in the broader argument that political fixes cannot solve the deepest human problem (sin, corruption). If you only care about the Messiah thread, you can skip to [[Sin_Is_The_Problem]].

== Core idea in a table ==
{| class="wikitable" style="width:100%;"
! What democracy claims
! What it can become without moral restraint
|-
| “Power comes from the people; leaders serve the common good.”
| Power becomes a contest of factions; “the people” becomes a slogan used to justify control.
|-
| “Rights protect minorities and the weak.”
| Rights become negotiable; institutions redefine “rights” by power.
|-
| “Law applies equally.”
| Law becomes selective: strict for opponents, flexible for allies.
|-
| “Truth is free; debate corrects errors.”
| Truth becomes managed: PR, pressure, and narrative control replace honest debate.
|-
| “Checks and balances restrain corruption.”
| Institutions get captured; “checks” become theater while real decisions move elsewhere.
|}

== A Christian political realism (Lewis) ==
C. S. Lewis argued democracy is partly a remedy for human moral failure:
* “I am a democrat because I believe in the Fall of Man…” <ref>[https://www.themarginalian.org/2016/11/29/c-s-lewis-equality-democracy/ C. S. Lewis on equality and democracy], ''The Marginalian'' (accessed 2026-01-18)</ref>
* “The function of equality is purely protective… It is medicine, not food.” <ref>[https://www.tlchrist.info/cs_lewis.htm Two Essays by C. S. Lewis — Equality and Democratic Education], ''tlchrist.info'' (accessed 2026-01-18)</ref>

== An American founding-era warning (Adams) ==
John Adams (commonly quoted) argued constitutional systems presuppose moral restraint:
* “Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people…” <ref>[https://onlinecoursesblog.hillsdale.edu/our-constitution-was-made-only-for-a-moral-and-religious-people/ Quote + attribution discussion], ''Hillsdale College (Online Courses Blog)'' (accessed 2026-01-18)</ref>

== See also ==
* [[Sin_Is_The_Problem]]
* [[God's_Plan_through_the_Ages]]
* [[Is_Jesus_the_Jewish_Messiah]]

<references />

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[[Category:Ethics]]
[[Category:Messiah]]

Messiah Sources

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Messiah Common Jewish Objections

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Messiah Prophecies Overview

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= Messianic Prophecies Overview (Christian case and Jewish disputes) =

{{MessiahSources}}

This table separates:
* '''Fulfilled (Christian claim)''' — Christians believe Jesus fulfilled these in his first coming
* '''Disputed''' — Christians and Jews interpret the text differently
* '''Future (Christian claim)''' — Christians place these at a second coming; Jews typically reject this category

== Overview table ==
{| class="wikitable sortable" style="width:100%;"
! Topic
! Primary Tanakh text(s)
! Christian claim (short)
! Common Jewish objection (short)
! Status
! Drill-down
|-
| Birth / origins
| Micah 5:2; Isaiah 7:14 (disputed)
| Messiah’s arrival signaled; applied to Jesus
| Context/translation disputes
| Disputed
| [[Isaiah_7_14_Almah_and_Septuagint]]
|-
| Line of David
| 2 Samuel 7; Jeremiah 23:5–6
| Messiah is Davidic; Jesus is presented as Davidic
| Genealogy/legal vs biological debates
| Disputed
| [[Messiah_Expectations_Peace_Temple_Gathering#Davidic_kingship]]
|-
| Suffering / atonement theme
| Isaiah 52:13–53:12
| Servant suffers for sins; applied to Jesus
| Servant is Israel / remnant; not Messiah
| Disputed
| [[Isaiah_53_The_Suffering_Servant]]
|-
| Kingdom and authority
| Daniel 7:13–14
| “Son of Man” receives dominion; applied to Jesus
| Corporate/symbolic readings
| Disputed
| [[Daniel_7_Son_of_Man_and_Kingdom]]
|-
| New Covenant
| Jeremiah 31:31–34
| Fulfilled in Jesus (Hebrews’ use)
| Covenant is with Israel/Judah; Torah internalized, not replaced
| Disputed
| [[New_Covenant_Jeremiah_31]]
|-
| Peace / worldwide knowledge of God
| Isaiah 2; Isaiah 11; Zechariah (various)
| Completion at second coming
| Messiah must accomplish these in messianic age (no two-stage)
| Future (Christian claim)
| [[Messiah_Expectations_Peace_Temple_Gathering]]
|}

== What to do next ==
* Read the objections list: [[Messiah_Common_Jewish_Objections]]
* Read expectations: [[Messiah_Expectations_Peace_Temple_Gathering]]

<references />

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[[Category:Messiah]]

Messiah Reading Guide

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= Messiah Reading Guide =

{{MessiahSources}}

== Recommended order ==
# '''[[Messiah_Prophecies_Overview]]''' — a clear map: what Christians claim, what Jews dispute, and why
# '''[[Messiah_Common_Jewish_Objections]]''' — the top objections with links to deeper pages
# '''[[Sin_Is_The_Problem]]''' — why atonement is central to the Messiah discussion

Then explore the biggest disputed texts:
* [[Isaiah_53_The_Suffering_Servant]]
* [[Daniel_7_Son_of_Man_and_Kingdom]]
* [[New_Covenant_Jeremiah_31]]
* [[Messiah_Expectations_Peace_Temple_Gathering]]

== How this series is structured ==
Each page follows the same format:
* 1) What the text says (in context)
* 2) How Jewish interpretation commonly reads it
* 3) How Christian interpretation reads it
* 4) Strongest objections + best replies
* 5) Summary (5 bullets)

== Quick glossary ==
* '''Tanakh''' — the Hebrew Bible (Torah, Prophets, Writings)
* '''Messiah (Mashiach)''' — “anointed one”; meaning varies by context and tradition
* '''Peshat''' — the plain/straightforward sense of a text (linguistic + literary context)

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Is Jesus the Jewish Messiah

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= Is Jesus the Jewish Messiah? =

This series presents the Christian case that Jesus of Nazareth fulfills the Jewish messianic hope, while also engaging the strongest Jewish objections with respect and documented sources.

This is written for:
* Jewish readers exploring the Christian claim
* Christians who want to understand Jewish objections accurately
* Anyone who wants a structured, source-based discussion

== Start here ==
* '''[[Messiah_Reading_Guide]]''' (recommended order + quick map)

== Core topics ==
* [[Messiah_Prophecies_Overview]] (high-level table; what Christians claim vs what Jews contest)
* [[Messiah_Common_Jewish_Objections]] (objections list with drill-down pages)
* [[Sin_Is_The_Problem]] (why atonement matters to the messianic question)

== Key debates (expanded pages) ==
* [[Isaiah_53_The_Suffering_Servant]]
* [[Daniel_7_Son_of_Man_and_Kingdom]]
* [[New_Covenant_Jeremiah_31]]
* [[Messiah_Expectations_Peace_Temple_Gathering]]
* [[Original_Sin_Jewish_and_Christian_Views]]

== Debate add-ons ==
* [[Rambam_Messiah_Criteria]]
* [[Deuteronomy_13_and_Jesus]]
* [[Daniel_9_Seventy_Weeks_Overview]]
* [[Isaiah_7_14_Almah_and_Septuagint]]
* [[Psalm_110_Priest_King]]

== About tone ==
This series avoids “gotcha” arguments. Where Jews and Christians interpret the same text differently, we present both readings and cite representative sources.

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Psalm 110 Priest King

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Isaiah 7 14 Almah and Septuagint

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Daniel 9 Jewish vs Christian Readings

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Daniel 9 Seventy Weeks Overview

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Zechariah 12 10 and Mourning

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Messiah ben Yosef

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Deuteronomy 13 and Jesus

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Did Jesus Meet Rambam Criteria

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Rambam Messiah Criteria

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Democracy without God

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Messiah Sources

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Messiah Common Jewish Objections

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Messiah Prophecies Overview

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Messiah Reading Guide

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Is Jesus the Jewish Messiah

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Messiah: Comparison Table (Prophecy vs. Fulfillment)

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[[Category:Messiah]]
== Comparison Chart ==
{| class="wikitable sortable"
! Prophecy !! Verse !! Fulfillment
|-
| Birthplace || Micah 5:2 || Matt 2:1
|-
| Pierced || Ps 22:16 || John 20:25
|-
| Suffering || Isa 53:5 || 1 Peter 2:24
|}

[[Messiah: Reading Guide|Back to Guide]]

Messiah: The Sign of Jonah (Resurrection)

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[[Category:Messiah]]
== The Resurrection ==
The ultimate proof of Messianic identity.

* '''Psalm 16:10:''' "You will not let your holy one see corruption."
* '''Evidence:''' The empty tomb and the radical transformation of the disciples.

[[Messiah: Reading Guide|Back to Guide]]

Messiah: The Two Genealogies

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[[Category:Messiah]]
== The Lineage of the Messiah ==
Addresses the differences between the genealogies in Matthew (legal/royal) and Luke (physical/biological).

[[Messiah: Reading Guide|Back to Guide]]

Messiah: The Sign of the Almah (Isaiah 7:14)

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[[Category:Messiah]]
== The Sign of the Almah ==
Addresses the "Virgin Birth" prophecy and the linguistic debate over the word "Almah."

=== Key Debate ===
Does ''Almah'' mean "Young Woman" or "Virgin"? The Septuagint (LXX) translates it as ''Parthenos'' (Virgin).

[[Messiah: Reading Guide|Back to Guide]]

Messiah: The Messianic Psalms (22 and 110)

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[[Category:Messiah]]
== Psalms 22 and 110 ==
=== Psalm 22: The Crucifixion ===
Describes "pierced hands and feet" and the casting of lots for garments long before crucifixion was a Roman practice.

=== Psalm 110: The Priest-King ===
Establishes the Messiah as a priest forever in the order of Melchizedek.

[[Messiah: Reading Guide|Back to Guide]]

Messiah: The Birthplace (Micah 5:2)

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[[Category:Messiah]]
== Micah 5:2: Bethlehem Ephrathah ==
The prophecy identifying the specific geographic origin of the Ruler of Israel.

* '''The Town:''' Bethlehem in Judah (not Galilee).
* '''The Origins:''' Described as being "from of old, from ancient times," implying pre-existence.

[[Messiah: Reading Guide|Back to Guide]]